Sunday, 13 May 2018

Chester Flat Earth group - Homepage inaccuracies.

This is a breakdown of the Chester Flat Earth group's homepage

The first item on the homepage is a photo of Chicago over Lake Michigan. Notice though that there is no supporting data of the observer his camera height (above the water level) or the exact location. So all we have is the supposed hidden height at 1060 feet. The tallest building n Chicago is the Willis tower, standing at 1451 feet and 82 feet above water level - total = 1,533 feet.

We can see vegetation in front but not much of the near shore.If they were at grand beach, at 43 miles this would give near enough the claimed hidden figure - that is assuming the camera was at water level - which it obviously is not. Lets take the average height of someone and the camera being at eye level, roughly 5.5 feet. For the calculated hidden that would give a distance of 46 miles (puts them between New Buffalo and Union pier). But, the average elevation above water level is 6 1/2 feet, so the new calculation would be 843 feet hidden. This would leave 690 feet of Willis tower visible.

The image itself is of poor quality, so cannot see any distinguishing features. We can clearly see though that there are lots of smaller buildings missing on the left hand side.

Here are some photos of Chicago from over the lake that clearly show Chicago's skyline partially obscured.

2nd Item

Activism is on the increase. Well, yes it seems to be. Nice video where believers are taking to the streets with banners telling you to 'research flat earth' and pointers to Eric Dubay's 200 proofs. Which are not 200 proofs as he repeats some over and over, nor are they proofs, just assertions and incorrect facts. If you want to know why '200 proofs' is wrong, try here refuting 200 proofs

It would also seem that Flatties are prepared to break the law with graffiti and vandalism.Also one of the videos has been removed, probably due to YouTubes code of conduct policies.

addendum: it would seem that the old video has been replaced by another, this item is concerning Antarctica. So we will call this.

2nd and a bit item

Antarctica - Sorry we are closed.

The most common claim flat earthers make is that Antarctica is off limits, you can not go there, you will be shot if you do. But they do admit that some people do go there - but only under strict conditions. They claim that the Antarctic treaty was drawn up to prevent anyone going and that it is heavily guarded by the worlds military. In actual fact the Antarctic treaty is the exact opposite. The antarctic treaty is here -

In short, the treaty states.
1/ No military use or presence - peaceful purposes only.
2/ No nuclear testing or nuclear waste.
3/ No commercial enterprise - no drilling for oil, coal etc
4/ Scientific and exploratory purposes are encouraged.
5/ No claims of sovereignty - no one country can claim land.
6/ Each participating signatory (country who signed the treaty) can inspect any other signatories presence and undertakings - the sharing of scientific data is encouraged.

There are areas of restriction, but generally you can go anywhere else without having to seek a permit. Restricted areas are not off limits - not the same thing. A permit is required to visit the restricted areas for scientific or exploratory purposes - you would have to show that you are not going to be causing detrimental damage,unlawful activities and that you will be fully prepared for the harsh conditions. Lets not forget, the Antarctic is the most inhospitable continent on earth - harsh, cold and treacherous weather conditions. If you do go there and are not prepared for these conditions - don't expect some one to come looking for you if things go wrong. The restricted areas are of special scientific interest or environmentally sensitive areas - a bit like a massive nature reserve.

The video used has an excerpt form a TV interview with Admiral Richard E Byrd, A naval admiral and intrepid explorer, very popular in America, similar to Britain's Sir Ranulph Fiennes. Admiral Byrd carried out a number of explorations of the the polar regions during the World Geophysical Year (1957 - 58), admittedly carried out by US Navy ships and personnel as he, Byrd, and the navy were the best equipped for such harsh conditions. I will quote a line that the video concentrates on by the video producer, because it is claimed that there are resources there that 'they' do not want 'you' to know about. 

Byrd says there is "Land as big as the United States that has never been seen beyond the south pole, from Little America - and it is quite astonishing that an area as big as that remains unexplored"

This line is claimed by flat earth proponents means that there is 'an ice wall' and 'more land' past this ice wall that 'they' do not want 'you' to see, possibly because of all the oil, gold, coal or whatever resources that are there waiting to be found - this has always struck me as odd, because if 'they' want it 'who' is going to mine it !!, its useless stuck underground.

The interview was cut short of most of what he states - "Land as big as the United States that has never been seen beyond the south pole, from Little America - and it is quite astonishing that an area as big as that remains unexplored down at the bottom of our world"  - bottom of our world - not 'at the edge'

Admiral Byrd was referring to the continent of Antarctica (Land as big as the United States) past the south pole (geographic pole) - from 'Little America' - the base camp set up by America.

Here are some facts of human presence.

There are about 4000 people based there during the summer (scientists, conservationists and support workers) and 1000 in the winter (the hardiest people)

10 children have been born there.

Nearly 40,000 tourists visit a year - cruises, fly overs etc. Cruises do not land people there (because of their size etc). There are some smaller vessels that do land there, photographic tours are popular 

Antarctica photography tours

There is a marathon race there
and a yacht race -

Greenpeace and Whale warriors sail around Antarctica on a regular basis.

Sailors who have circumnavigated Antarctica include James Clark Ross (3 times), Captain Cook also
If you look at the coastline of Antarctica, you will see names of sailors or explorers who have been there, sailed it, walked it and explored it - this is enough to give you a clue that Antarctica is a continent and has been mapped as such. The coastline of Antarctica is roughly 11,000 miles - yet the supposed ice wall would be 60,000 plus miles. Capt Cooke is often cited as sailing around Antarctica and logged 60,000 miles, but this figure is for the whole voyage, starting from the UK, around Africa, Australia, New Zealand, back again to Africa, around Antarctica and then South America before heading home to UK

Also it is claimed that it is guarded by military naval warships. So at 60,000 miles how many warships do you think that would need,why has no body noticed them, where were they built, how many crew would they need. Well, the only guards you will find there are Penguins.

3rd Item

Image result

This long winded boreathon, typical of flat earth videos, supposedly shows Ireland from 140 miles. The first 2 videos the producer states where they were and how high, but at no point do they give bearings. In both those videos they are looking at the Isle of Man all the time. The narrator displays an obvious lack of knowledge of how cameras work, he says a couple of times that they camera can not focus on the hazy land as it is 'beyond the focal range of the camera' so takes that as point in that it is 'really far', dumb, Cameras (or more precise the lens) can focus up to infinity, his focusing problems are due to poor contrast. There would be no problem focusing at ANY distance. Distance to Isle of man is 31 miles to the north point and 58 miles to the south tip. In between are Ramsey, at 33 miles, Then Laxey at 37 miles, then Douglas at 42 miles. This video is already invalid as this point has already been proven in the Chicago photos. The end videos are those that have been concentrated with some composite picture that was made. It is quite clear that these videos were taken much closer or from a higher point. Throughout the videos they neglect to say that you can not see Ramsey (highest elevation - 39 feet, hidden would be 300 ft), Laxey (highest elevation - 229 feet, hidden 400 feet) or Douglas (highest elevation - 137 feet, hidden 500 feet), they are hidden due to the curve. During the composite review, they misidentify Langness Lighthouse - they show a few pixels of white and state 'clearly that is the Lighthouse - but you notice there is higher ground behind it. The lighthouse is the highest point on that promontory. The few pixels of white could be anything, but it is clear that it is NOT Langness lighthouse. Finally, in the first video at about 4:40 there is a clear view of a high cliff. The only high cliffs in that area are on the isle of man, along its eastern coast, the cliff captured is just north at Laxey - 36 miles away, 725 feet and 380 feet hidden, 345 feet visible - as expected on globe geometry.There are no high cliffs on the south facing coastal ares of Scotland to the north nor on any of the eastern coast of Northern Ireland. That cliff is definately Isle of Man. Isle of Man has 2 mountain ranges - Snaefel and South barrule. Between Ramsey and Point of Ayre the land is below 300 feet, so barely visible - The Snaefel area between Laxey and Kirk Michael is the highest portions of the Isle, Douglas to Patrick lies in the valley between the 2 peaks and below visible (except the Lighthouse). There is the peak of South Barulle sloping down to Calf of man and Langness lighthouse (hidden by the horizon)

Also Northern Ireland is between 2 - 2.5 times further away than IOM - this would mean (even if a flat earth, globe model obscures it toally) that the heights at that range need to be more than twice as high as IOM high points - those heights are IOM at 400 to 2000 feet , so NI needs to be at least 800 to 4000 feet. Which it is not - actually around 300 to 600 feet.. As they do NOT give in any bearings or offer any bearings the observation is invalid, but even extrapolating the above data it's obvious they were still observing the Isle of Man

4th Item

200 proofs that earth is not a spinning ball - Deary me, so much scientific ignorance here.

Study this first to see why Dubay is so wrong : Also note, Dubay is not his real name, it's Michaels. He is a yoga instructor based in the Philippines. His father and uncle are Freemasons, Dubay hates Freemasons. He is also a Neo Nazi who thinks Hitler was a good guy and the holocaust is a lie. His Neo Nazi channels have been taken down by YouTube for . basically, hate speech. How come a yoga instructor is such an authority on so much science, history, geography and social studies.

No earth curvature from human observation : there is plenty have just described it above in the Chicago and Isle of Man post. The problem here derives from the fact that the earth is HUGE and we are very small. On the face of it, standing on the ground, especially coastal areas, you can be mistaken for it being flat - it looks flat, even at a height of 1 thousand feet it will still look flat.You need serious height and a wide view to noticeably see the curve, typically above 100,000 feet.Weather balloons are typical for this and they will clearly show the curved horizon, but the cry will be 'Fish eye lens'We could just go with a photo from space which should clinch the deal - but we all know that will get flatties up in arms and shout 'fFFFFAAAAKKKEEe'. So lets look at how fisheye lenses works. They distort the edge areas to give a wider field of view, and the distortion is noticeable. But as is common with all lenses, the central portions will be straight vertically and horizontally.

So here is a shot of an horizon with a GoPro - irespective of whether it is a fisheye or not, the central lens portion is not distorted.

Here is an innocuous image I just took from a google image search, picked at random. I then added a 1 pixel red line across it - clearly shows a curve, very subtle - without the line you could be forgiven to thik it was straight.

Finally some extreme demos of the curve.

And the same mountain, much closer

Anyone can prove this, it just takes some setting up and good conditions.

For a curve calculator :

No scientific experiments to prove earth rotates.

Unless you never ever go outdoors at all, you could determine this with simple every day observations. The clues are in the sky. Sunrise and sunset, Moonrise and set, stars themselves also rise and set, circumpolar star movements at any point on earth and also eclipses. The fact that stars in the northern hemisphere rotate around the north celestial pole anti clockwise, to straight at the equator, then turning clockwise in the southern hemisphere. All of these movements have been observed and measured throughout the millenniums to such a point that with all the data collected, predictions can be made of these movements to the utmost accuracy from any place on earth, and more so any place in our solar system and beyond. Astronomy (more on this in the section dealing with Copernicus) has been the pivotal science that has contributed to this, especially since the advent of the telescope. Anyone can confirm these phenomena with just their eyes, a telescope or even just binoculars. Mind you, it could be a lifetimes work - but hey, all the legwork has been done for you.

Practical demonstrations and experiments have been carried out and these include.

The Foucaults pendulum : A practical demonstration of the effects of rotation. The pendulum consists of a weighted ball suspended from a pivoting point, which moves back and forth over a circular marked out area. His first demonstration, he used a weighted ball with a downward pointing spike which traced its path through sand. Other variations of the device have been made that include overhead cameras tracking its progress, pins that are knocked down when struck etc.Foucault predicted the tracking movements from known mathematical references before he built it, and was correct and accurate. The pendulum travelled the world to different latitudes, and using the prediction equations, the movements changed accordingly. For instance, at the poles, a complete rotation took 24 hours, In the Pantheon, Paris a full rotation took 31.8 hours. The time for a full rotation varies at each latitude, but is always precise at those latitudes in line with the equations. Any one can build one and observe its effects. There are also installed pendulums in other museums around the world, working exactly as predicted.

More modern technical applications are used today to measure the rotation, these being large ring laser gyroscopes that measure the shift of fired lasers into mirrors, as we know the speed of light, the shift can be measured against that reference point and the delay gives precise results of the rotational speed.

Very often, Flat earth proponents quote historical experiments that proved the earth did not rotate, however they are wrong about what it proves and also what the experiment was devised for .


FE version: That the experiment was to test the earths rotation. Untrue again, the Michelson Gale experiment however was devised to measure the rate of rotation, this was after more work was done by Sagnac, who devised methods to measure rotation

The Michelson–Morley experiment was a scientific experiment to find the presence and properties of a substance called aether, a substance believed to fill empty space. ... Michelson and Morley created this experiment to try and prove the theory that aether existed. They did this with a device called an interferometer.

Since sound waves in water need something to move in (water) and sound waves do as well in air, it was believed that light also needed something to move in. The experiment was expected to show a difference in the speed of light and a direction of movement to support the theory of the existence of Aether thought to be the medium in space that transmits light. The result pointed more towards the possibility that Aether did NOT exist, later to help prove special reltivity. Notice that the experiment was determined to show 'something' in space - out of the earths atmosphere, so suggesting no dome.Another erroneous claim that it proved the shape of the earth, to which it was not intended to do so, although it did evolve into the Michelson-Gale experiment.

Michelson - Gale

FE Version: Just think it was a rerun of the morley experiment, that it proved the earth did NOT move, rotate. Completely wrong

The Michelson–Gale–Pearson experiment (1925) was a modified version of the Michelson–Morley experiment and the Sagnac-Interferometer. It measured the Sagnac effect (effect on light) due to Earth's rotation, and thus tests the theories of special relativity and luminiferous ether along the rotating frame of Earth.The outcome of the experiment was that the angular velocity of the Earth as measured by astronomy was confirmed to within measuring accuracy. Whilst not designed to test the shape, it DOES test and PROVE earth moves, orbits the sun. Again, the conclusion was aether did not exist

No real pictures of earth from space.

Where is he looking, there are thousands upon thousands of them. Even from pre digital on film. what do they consider 'real', they all are. The common fallacy that NASA admit they fake them is based on a simple misunderstanding of what a composite picture is - they are numerous single images stitched together to make a larger, single image -  NASA admit that, that carefully explain whether they are single images, composites, artist impressions or animations.


Releases regular and up to the minute images of earth in FULL format. An important programme that carefully monitors and studies weather patterns to help our understanding or to give timely warnings.

Japanese Space agency Himwari 8 and

Takes a full size image every ten minutes, almost immediately available.As above, weather monitoring.

Apollo image archive - images that pre date digital imaging - using real film -

NASA image archive -

ISS live stream - if you are diligent and patient, you can watch this live stream and confirm the weather patterns and cloud formations in your area LIVE (be aware, could be boring) .some times the transmission breaks up when the ISS is out of range of a receiver station .

ISS experimental HD live stream -

spinning at 1000 mph centrifugal force would send us flying.

Lets be exact here, the earth rotates one full revolution every 24 hours. That's half as fast as your watch. This is down to a total lack of understanding the interactions between gravity and centrifugal force.Without going in to formulae and calculations a simple answer for layman is .Though the speed at the equator is very high (because of radius) the RPM is very low as compared to the effects of centrifugal force we see in case of wheels and other devices. Forget speed and imagine a machine running at one revolution per 24 hours and then you will get the idea. In essence, the centripetal force of rotation is not sufficient to overcome gravity. A note about speed here is necessary. speed, or velocity, is relative. You do not feel speed, you feel acceleration or declaration. Think about modes of travel. Your car, you certainly feel acceleration if you give it 'full gas' and you certainly feel deceleration  if you 'slam on the brakes'. Aircraft, the average passenger plane travels at around 500 mph, you will feel climbing, descending and banking as these effect velocity. But once cruising at a steady speed, you don't feel it. You can get up, go to the loo etc, throw up a ball, it will land in your hand - not fly to the back. Concorde, I once had the auspicious occasion on flying on this fantastic craft. Once it got to mach 2, approx 1400 mph, we all cheered. But you could have been sat on the tarmac for all you knew, it was that smooth. Now if earth suddenly did stop moving - well, say goodbye to your breakfast.

Aeroplanes would have to dip their noses

In actual fact, they do, either by the pilot or the autopilot - but it is so slight passengers would never notice. The pilot and autopilot would be concerned by 3 areas for level flight, atmospheric pressure, altitude and vertical speed. Firstly, an aeroplane cannot fly into space simply because, at some point, it can no longer generate either enough thrust and/or lift to continue climbing as the outside atmospheric pressure would be to low, so it will naturally drop to a level where the pressure is sufficient. Gravity  governs the atmospheric pressures and the higher you go, the less pressure so therefore gravity acts on the aircraft and the aircraft creates the lift and thrust necessary to maintain a level flight.It should be noted that west to east and vice versa on a flat earth would require the aircraft to constantly bank left or right.

Important notes to bear in mind

This section is oh so very, very wrong. Typical of flat earth research or to put it another way, total lack of it. The history of the knowledge that our earth is a globe can be traced back to 600 years BC with Pythagoras being the first to mention the earth as a sphere in his written notes. Others include many other ancient Greek philosophers such as Aristotle, Plato and Archimedes. Eratosthenes was the first written statement of the earths size and circumference when he noticed a difference in the length of shadows at 2 different cities at the equinox. He calculated the earths circumference with incredible accuracy. Into the Roman era we have Ptolemy, whose life work was studying, measuring and documenting the celestial objects and their movements and positions. He produced a huge 8 volume written work and gave rise to the science of astronomy. Others who have notably contributed to the knowledge of the globe include Islamic scholars such as Al-Biruni - who again measured the circumference to within 30 kilometres. Many other Islamic scholars contributed to the knowledge of the globe giving rise to Geodesy and Geography - the study of our world. For Islam, these works were extremely important for the 'Qibla', the facing for prayer to always point to Mecca.

However, the most intrinsic claim here concerns Copernicus. Glossed over too lightly here stating he was a mathematician and it was a theory. Not so - ever since the ancient Greeks the globe has never been in doubt and was long past theory status. Lets first put the record right concerning Copernicus. He was a highly educated, university trained Polish roman catholic who studied astronomy, economics, mathematics, politics and most importantly canonical law, of which he received a doctorate - a high rank in the catholic church.It should also be noted that most scientific study was being undertaken by devout Christians around his time.

So what was his major contribution - heliocentric model over geocentric model. Within the church and educated people of his time there was no question that the earth was a globe, his life work laid the foundations in the biggest rethink of the earths' place in the universe, ie that the earth as not the centre of the universe or our solar system, and that the earth and the other known planets orbited the sun and not around the earth. He paved the way for the new and revised heliocentric view, of which Aristarchus (310 - 230 BC) first documented the Heliocentric model. However, as a devout Roman catholic this caused him great discomfort as it went against current thinking and scripture. Although he had written his life work, ' De revolutionibus orbium coelestium' (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres) it was never published until just before his death.

Next we come to the point of 'indoctrination' - I really hate this excuse, as it suggests that educated people are not educated, but brainwashed. I find that insulting even to those who are not so knowledgeable in the sciences. Do we really have to re invent the wheel every generation, are we really that dumb. No. For me this wraps up the flat earth deception as it relies on someones lack of knowledge to be successful. I for one can not remember seeing a globe in every classroom - I have asked my daughters and granddaughters (whom are currently still at school), they too confirm that a globe in every classroom is not the case. Education is not about brainwashing, or simple facts poured into your head. It promotes and teaches logic, critical thinking, methodology and structure of which is mostly demonstrated through practical experiments and hands on excercises. I hated physics and maths at school, so i should have been perfect fodder for flat earth but I find myself more and more intrigued in these areas so much that i truly regret 'bunking off' school so much. So i took it upon my self to seek further education and gain qualifications to enable me too develop a career around Computers and IT, and here I am looking forward to retirement early with a comfortable pension. But I am still learning new things, I find it exciting.

Major science fiction films: Not even sure what this comment is meant to imply, are they suggesting that because of Star Wars, Star Trek and 2001, a space odyssey we are all somehow brainwashed by it. Come on, what about films about werewolves, time travel, talking donkeys and dogs, aliens and predators etc etc. They are just films, entertainment

Growing scientific evidence that rockets don't work, there is no air to push off.. Rocketry is entirely different to jet propulsion or propeller flight. Again, this is aimed at someone with little knowledge in this area. Flat earthers seem to think that if they do not understand it, it is fake.Rockets and engines in space behave according to Isaac Newton's third law of motion: Every action produces an equal and opposite reaction. When a rocket shoots fuel out one end, this propels the rocket forward — no air is required. There is no friction and drag in space so whatever speed is required, it does not need the power to maintain that speed except for manoeuvring, rockets and space craft can take advantage of gravity, performing a 'slingshot' boost . You can observe this principle on earth by the following. Get a skateboard, or roller skates. Get a heavy medicine ball or similar - throw it away from you, the ball flies forward, you get propelled back a little. Do it on ice, on ice skates, same effect.

NASA are liars and fakers

Well they have to be, they blast flat earth to smithereens (see pictures of earth).But they are not the only space agency. At the moment there is growing co operation between NASA and the ESA plus Russia. The Chinese are also developing their own space programme. If the earth was flat, China wouldn't be doing it and would have a major political coup over the rest of the world. NASA are about the most transparent of any US government agency, they are a civilian run, public owned outfit under close scrutiny of auditors, they employ directly over 17000 people, over half a million were involved during their Apollo programme. How are you going to get that many people to keep the secret. A lot of effort is spent by debunkers over the many podcasts, linkups and videos released by NASA with claims of bubbles in space, and harnesses being seen.If NASA really did shoot their space walks underwater, do you think that they would show you how they do it with videos of them undergoing training underwater. Take a close look at these videos where bubbles are supposed to be seen. 1/ there should be hell of a lot more bubbles, 2/ Bubbles are shaped like balls, these supposed bubbles are not, all sorts of irregular shapes. 3/Air bubbles go straight up, these 'bubbles' fly off in any direction. As for the harnesses, theatrical harnesses can only do one axis at a time, so you can spin, but not twist or you can twist, but not spin. How about hair spray ? - Hair is light, its tendency at the follicles is to stick up, on earth its its combined weight holds it down, in zero gravity it would stick up. Do you also notice that astronauts faces all looked a bit 'puffed up', this is due to your bodies fluid content also being affected by zero G, so much so that astronauts are more likely to suffer long term effects such as heart atrophy, loss of bone structure as the body reacts to zero G. Another claim is the use the 'vommit comet' to film scenes where they are floating. Not so, the parabolic dives that the aircraft does to simulate zero G can only last 30 seconds or so. Of course then there are 'chroma key' or 'green screen' effects. Well, could be possible but the only evidence flat earthers present is only their biased suggestion. For an outfit that gets $19 billion a year, they would not be doing these so called easy mistakes.

Finally the admission they have not gone past low earth orbit or past the Van Allen belt. Again, this is just poor research, no critical thinking, coupled with cherry picking quotes or as we call it 'quote mining'. Seriously though, NASA's most momentous achievement was to land 6 missions on the moon and 1 other fly by. Both of these missions were out of low earth orbit and through the Van Allen belts, so do you think they would 'forget' those facts and hope we mere plebs would not notice. As I explain in a later comment on the NASA video below, these 2 comments relate to the present missions and the developing SLS future missions. So, at the moment, there are no space craft capable of going past 'low earth orbit' (about 1,299 miles) but will be with the SLS programme and SpaceX. The Van Allen belts, yes these were a problem for Apollo, this is an area around the earth (like a dooughnut shape) where radiation is at a high level. Long exposure in this area would be dangerous to humans (not immediate death by frying as suggested). The Apollo missions got round this by brute force and trajectory. The trajectory was such that the space craft escaped the belts at their weakest points, the brute force of Saturn 5 achieved this very quickly. They were not in he belts long enough to sustain any appreciable threat. All the astronauts wore dosimeters to measure their exposure and it was found that the doses received were equivalent to having a couple of chest x-rays. The problem with the Van Allen belts now is that the SLS programme will spend more time in those belts and the sophisticated electronics required for deep space missions (Mars) will have to be protected, and tested before they send humans through the belts again. In short, NASA has NEVER said they have not been higher than Low Earth Orbit and they have NEVER said they can not go through the Van Allen belts.

The leaflet

I very much doubt it that 'millions are waking up' to this world wide conspiracy, it is mainly fuelled by religion and lack of scientific knowledge and understanding. But there are BILLIONS of people on this earth and it would be improbable that all countries, political leanings and not to mention the countless people involved in any of the industries and sciences that are required to make those countries, political parties, all space agencies, all scientists, teachers, universities, satellite companies, armed forces, pilots, sailors, explorers, aircraft companies, and a ton of support and contracted workers etc etc for over 2500 years and impossible to stop the secret getting out without anyone whistle blowing or death bed confessions, of all the above people and their families etc etc. The flat earth is the greatest lie ever told, and it is anti science, anti government and anti intellectual plus anti education.

5th Item

NASA admits they never went to the moon.

Before you even click the bait, when did NASA admit that - or is it more naive thinking on flat earth believers mindset.All you need to do is watch and listen - why is this video even there.

The question asked concerned what happens after the ISS program, to put humans in space. The answer was regarding NASA's forthcoming SLS (Space Launch System) and Orion capsule, which will cover deep space travel to the moon, Mars etc. The crucial line was 'Right now, we can only fly in earth orbit, the new system will allow us to go beyond'.

Lets dissect it ' Right Now' - we know the meaning of 'Right now' ie we are talking about err, right now !!. Does that sound like an admission. Its true, right now (as at the time of the video) NASA did not have a system to do so, they did in the sixties and seventies with the Apollo program with the Saturn 5 heavy launcher. They have none left, the program  was cancelled and the budget slashed to one tenth. Does not sound like an admission to me, and i am sure, to anyone else - why put that video there at all ? its a non issue.

6th item

2017 US total eclipse

First and foremost, this video is not about the eclipse per se, so it is misleading. The eclipse happened, they have been happening for millions of years and will continue to happen. This is just some guy trying to say that the images taken by NASA are fake, by comparing them to images he has took. He loads them into photoshop and talks bout signature (what ever that means, he doesn't elaborate). He states that by ramping up levels you can tell whether they were edited or not. Well of course they are, that is what photoshop is for. That does NOT prove they are fake. If you have never used photoshop before you probably would not know what levels are used for, levels can adjust the intensity of colours, or tone them down. You can target specific colours, such as just the reds. Also he was comparing them to photos he has too, the NASA photos were jpg files of which we do not know the compression ratio used, if they were destined for web usage, they would be of high compression and so they would look like they do in his video. Plus he does not state if his images are in raw format or jpg with low compression. It would be like comparing black and white to colour. This video is irrelevant to the shape of the earth, and irrelevant to the eclipse. All those images he shows from NASA have already been processed for public consumption - all NASA pictures become public domain. Altering levels on them proves nothing, other than the video producer has an agenda against NASA

7th item

Mark Sargent flat earth clues.

Mark Sargent (real name Larson).He used to be a software games tester but finished that to concentrate on his website and videos - to make a living. His driving force behind this is simply money, he doesn't care what the content is, so long as people view his videos (advertising laden) and buy his merchandise. He, like others jumping on this bandwagon, has spotted a niche market. Some of his ideas are based on religion, so that reaches a large part of his American audience. He makes the same basic mistakes of poor research that Dubay has done on his 200 proofs, almost to the point of just repeating the poor science understanding. He makes the same mistake regarding Copernicus in that it is almost a carbon copy of Dubay's diatribe.

8th item

Magnetic flat earth

If mainstream science is gobbledygook to you, this is the finest form of it. This video is attempting to portray the moon and sun as a 'magnet', and that it is close - which is not - see The sun on flat earth. I really can not comment on this as it is just weird waccy baccy science, some thing flat earthers are fond of - throwing out mainstream science and introducing their own versions. You will see a common trend amongst flat earthers in that they can not agree on any one particular explanation of anything, they cant decide what the sun is, where it is or how big it is or what it does and how.

9th item

Bad science - Dewey B Larson

This is a video presented by yet another flat earth crackpot, Jeranism - who gets debunked on every video he produces because he is so science illiterate, most of the time he debunks himself with his failed attempts to show no curvature which then, does, shows curvature. Another Niche market money maker. - Who is Dewey B Larson - an engineer, that's it - an engineer who is also considered a crackpot amongst main stream science. He has never had a peer reviewed paper produced ever, he denounces mathematics in science for , umm, reasons. This item highlights the general lack of mathematical understanding and illiteracy amongst flat earth believers, because they do not understand it, therefore its fake. They claim that maths is just a bunch of numbers that can be made to look like convincing proof. Its not, Maths works, you can test it, construct working models, you can predict with it, it is an important tool in understanding just about anything in physics. Without maths there would be no computers, no mobile phones, no TV, radio, and the list goes on and on. If the calculations do not 'add up' then they, do not add up. Formulae and equations are the lifeblood in science - so if you don't understand logarithm tables, cosines and vectors, it is not a deception or fake, its just a lack of understanding. A scientist who fabricates evidence will have a very short career.

10th Item

Rob Skiba - International flat earth conference

Skiba is another 'niche market' money maker. He is totally driven by his version of the bible, often criticised by the mainstream church on his outlandish views on 'churchianity' and mainstream theology. He considers himself a 'hebrew roots' new Christian cum Yehuah religious crackpot, he states he is also an ward winning filmmaker but I damned if i can find what these awards are. He writes books on his his crackpot alien, Nephilim and end of days pseudo religious mumbo jumbo He is also a liar. At 24:45 of this video he shows this image to the audience.


He claims it is fake, and it is fake. He categorically states that this is an official NASA Apollo 11 image of Buzz Aldrin stepping out of the lunar module with the earth to his right. However, it is not an official NASA image - you will not find this in NASA's archives at all. It is two images made into one, a hoaxer faked it. See here for a more detailed run down. Skiba lies about NASA, he has to,because it is not in line with his interpretation of the bible.

Last item (phew)

Speed before pilots black out

Sorry guys, you have this totally wrong. Speed does NOT induce a black out, it is G-Forces (gravitational force). The fastest aircraft in history in the world reached speeds, piloted, in excess of 4500 mph. Whilst at those speeds there is NO element of danger for the pilot, it is the G-forces in acceleration and deceleration. Today's fighter planes can reach in excess of 8 g-force in a vertical climb and this is the area where harm to the pilot can be induced.Above this G, blood will begin to drain away from the brain and the heart can not maintain pressure , then you black out. Pilots wear 'G-Suits' where the legs and lower abdomen can be compressed so that blood does not drain away from the brain. The world record for high G survival was Air Force officer John Stapp, who demonstrated a human can withstand 46.2 G's (46 times his own weight). Speed in space is also irrelevant in this case as the further away from earth, the less G Force. So the speed of the Apollo missions on the way to the moon would not have any G Force worries. The average G Forces felt for the Saturn 5 and Soyuz rocket launches are typically within the 2 to 3 Gs, so well within the limits.

Final thoughts:

The 2 main proponents of the flat earth are Vic Button and Pete and Peter.

Pete and Peter youtube - Peter and Pete

These guys are hilarious, these are some of their claims.

Yellow bananas can't happen on globe earth
Catalytic converters in cars are a con
Jet aircraft run on compressed air, so jet fuel is a hoax.
Air is actually water.
Hydrogen doesn't exist.
We do not exhale carbon dioxide.
Gases do not dissolve in water.
Water i NOT H2O

Then there is Vic Button.

It seems Vic idolises the 2 guys above, it is plain to see on YouTube videos of their street activism.
He believes in chemtrails.
That NASA manipulates the world's weather


  1. Quite clearly it is not - was hoping for something more meaty than that Vic. Enjoy your delusions. I may coin another post on CFGG